You almost gave me a heart attack, I went to my usual site to buy a playset until I realized there wasn't a "to" in between "lowered" and "~$2".Uralya said:
don()shinobi said:
*ponders upon being sorry or not* No, no, I don't think I'm sorry.
So, I have a certain fascination with the Barian Chaos Numbers, so I was wondering if anyone would help me with ideas for a deck using RUMs and Number Cs.
What I'm looking for:
-Best archetypes to churn out the base forms of the Number Cs
-Best RUMs for the goal of the deck
-Support in general
I would probably focus on 101/C101, but 102/C102, 103/C103, and 106/C106 are all appealing too (even if 102/C102 is very hard to use). I also have a soft spot for RUM Quick Chaos because of the 101/C101 interaction.
For reiteration, I'm not looking to make this a RUM toolbox with C69/C104 evolving from random things but instead one that focuses on giving the secondary effects to the Chaos Numbers or gets C101/C103 going.
Depends on whether you're willing to delve into TCG or OCG.
It's fine, I don't like CXyz Barian too much anyway. Too hard to really efficiently use, but is a TON of fun.
Well, you're gonna wanna start with something that mostly all of the C10X can take advantage of in some form that, overall, doesn't harm the main deck very much. And I've got the perfect card for that, which also happens to be one of my favorite cards in the game: Black Garden. Don't see it? Try dis knowledge on fer size.
* While it mostly just helps you take less damage until you can do something and provide monsters for your opponent to kill so you can benefit from Supply Unit (when we get it, of course), the decreased ATK of your opponent's monsters highly benefits Ragnazero and Ragnafinity. (The added bonus of being able to revive Ragnazero with Black Garden isn't bad, either!)
* The decreased ATK of your opponent's monsters can also help make the LP gain of C101 much more meaningful, since when you gain LP from it, you gain LP equal to its original ATK.
* If your opponent tries to get around Black Garden by getting rid of your cards by monster effects, C104 and the 106s will make 'em pay.
* C107 has a powerful effect...but it requires your opponent to have monsters for maximum effect. The simple act of summoning it with The Seventh One will give your opponent 2 tokens to attack. You're likely to have tokens too if your opponent has been doing some summoning as well.
Now, what archetype works best with Black Garden? In my experience, Jurracs with Summoner Monk and Evilswarm Thunderbird do the job just fine.
* I shouldn't have to explain why Summoner Monk works (though I WILL point out that it has 800 ATK, making it easy for Black Garden)...it just does. Giving a worthless The Seventh One a use is also a plus. Monk itself is a key--it can easily summon Evilswarm Thunderbird, which under Black Garden, is EXTREMELY difficult to remove from the field. If you need to Xyz from there, you can easily make Key Beetle to protect Black Garden, or even Evilswarm Thanatos/Nightmare if monster effects are ruining your day, or something else to fit your needs.
* The Jurracs themselves really thin out the deck with Guaiba and Fossil Dig, making it easier to draw into what you need, like the RUMs. Most have 1700 ATK, putting them just 50 ATK above the tokens they'll summon for your opponent. Guaiba and Dino let you gain advantage from these tokens, with the former easily setting up Rank 4s. Iguanon (Admit it: You looked up what that was ) can destroy a token to bounce your opponent's set monsters--setting a monster is an easy way around Black Garden, so Iguanon rounds it all out and punishes those sets. Since they're Jurracs, they can easily make Laggia and Dolkka (the former can be revived by Black Garden in a pinch).
Now for the RUMs...I'll just be going over what matters. Try not to run any more than 6 of these in total.
* The Seventh One: This needs no explanation whatsoever. Run 1-2. If you run 2, prepare to draw into it at a very inopportune time (AKA, the start of the game), but if it does end up being a dead draw, it can at least be Monk fuel. When Hope Dragun comes to the TCG, running 2 might not be a horrid idea.
* Numeron Force: This negates everything other than the summoned monster...including the Black Garden you should have on the field, so your Number C10X will be standing at its original ATK to wreck the lowered ATK of your opponent's monsters (and the tokens that just so happen to be summoned in attack position). Run 2-3.
* Limited Barian's Force: Use only if you plan on running C69, which you said you didn't plan on doing...though it DOES provide an easier way to benefit from C106. But if you find it better to focus on the control of Black Garden, this might not be a good idea...run 0.
* Barian's Force: Run this if you want to keep up the effect of Black Garden. If you run 2 Numeron, try 1 copy of this and see how it goes. Otherwise, run 0; there are better options.
* Quick Chaos: It definitely sounds promising, but it's really iffy, as the C10Xs mostly shine the most in the Main Phase, and this card works well outside of your Main Phase. Still, it can be used as a quick alternative to countering effects that target the base 10Xs. Run 0-2.
* Admiration of the Thousands: Use only if Rank 4 Xyz monsters are very common in the area...oh, they sort of are thanks to Exciton and 101. Just be aware: Summoning a monster with this card isn't properly summoning it. Run 0-1, though running 1 copy is very acceptable when we get Hope Dragun.
Overall, be wary of Exciton Knight--any 1-card combos that your opponent does to get it out will give you 2-3 tokens, just making it easier to nuke your field.
Godspeed.
Well, you're gonna wanna start with something that mostly all of the C10X can take advantage of in some form that, overall, doesn't harm the main deck very much. And I've got the perfect card for that, which also happens to be one of my favorite cards in the game: Black Garden. Don't see it? Try dis knowledge on fer size.
* While it mostly just helps you take less damage until you can do something and provide monsters for your opponent to kill so you can benefit from Supply Unit (when we get it, of course), the decreased ATK of your opponent's monsters highly benefits Ragnazero and Ragnafinity. (The added bonus of being able to revive Ragnazero with Black Garden isn't bad, either!)
* The decreased ATK of your opponent's monsters can also help make the LP gain of C101 much more meaningful, since when you gain LP from it, you gain LP equal to its original ATK.
* If your opponent tries to get around Black Garden by getting rid of your cards by monster effects, C104 and the 106s will make 'em pay.
* C107 has a powerful effect...but it requires your opponent to have monsters for maximum effect. The simple act of summoning it with The Seventh One will give your opponent 2 tokens to attack. You're likely to have tokens too if your opponent has been doing some summoning as well.
Now, what archetype works best with Black Garden? In my experience, Jurracs with Summoner Monk and Evilswarm Thunderbird do the job just fine.
* I shouldn't have to explain why Summoner Monk works (though I WILL point out that it has 800 ATK, making it easy for Black Garden)...it just does. Giving a worthless The Seventh One a use is also a plus. Monk itself is a key--it can easily summon Evilswarm Thunderbird, which under Black Garden, is EXTREMELY difficult to remove from the field. If you need to Xyz from there, you can easily make Key Beetle to protect Black Garden, or even Evilswarm Thanatos/Nightmare if monster effects are ruining your day, or something else to fit your needs.
* The Jurracs themselves really thin out the deck with Guaiba and Fossil Dig, making it easier to draw into what you need, like the RUMs. Most have 1700 ATK, putting them just 50 ATK above the tokens they'll summon for your opponent. Guaiba and Dino let you gain advantage from these tokens, with the former easily setting up Rank 4s. Iguanon (Admit it: You looked up what that was
) can destroy a token to bounce your opponent's set monsters--setting a monster is an easy way around Black Garden, so Iguanon rounds it all out and punishes those sets. Since they're Jurracs, they can easily make Laggia and Dolkka (the former can be revived by Black Garden in a pinch).Now for the RUMs...I'll just be going over what matters. Try not to run any more than 6 of these in total.
* The Seventh One: This needs no explanation whatsoever. Run 1-2. If you run 2, prepare to draw into it at a very inopportune time (AKA, the start of the game), but if it does end up being a dead draw, it can at least be Monk fuel. When Hope Dragun comes to the TCG, running 2 might not be a horrid idea.
* Numeron Force: This negates everything other than the summoned monster...including the Black Garden you should have on the field, so your Number C10X will be standing at its original ATK to wreck the lowered ATK of your opponent's monsters (and the tokens that just so happen to be summoned in attack position). Run 2-3.
* Limited Barian's Force: Use only if you plan on running C69, which you said you didn't plan on doing...though it DOES provide an easier way to benefit from C106. But if you find it better to focus on the control of Black Garden, this might not be a good idea...run 0.
* Barian's Force: Run this if you want to keep up the effect of Black Garden. If you run 2 Numeron, try 1 copy of this and see how it goes. Otherwise, run 0; there are better options.
* Quick Chaos: It definitely sounds promising, but it's really iffy, as the C10Xs mostly shine the most in the Main Phase, and this card works well outside of your Main Phase. Still, it can be used as a quick alternative to countering effects that target the base 10Xs. Run 0-2.
* Admiration of the Thousands: Use only if Rank 4 Xyz monsters are very common in the area...oh, they sort of are thanks to Exciton and 101. Just be aware: Summoning a monster with this card isn't properly summoning it. Run 0-1, though running 1 copy is very acceptable when we get Hope Dragun.
Overall, be wary of Exciton Knight--any 1-card combos that your opponent does to get it out will give you 2-3 tokens, just making it easier to nuke your field.
Godspeed.
*laughs inwardly*
That is originality. Black Garden. I don't think anyone else would have thought of that. Also, Jurracs and Thunderbird - well, there's even more of an original idea. The premise for this idea is nice, but I would think Chain Beat accomplishes this concept more efficiently, and sadly I hate using BG in general :/
Doing some research last night and today, I was looking at Gadgets (possibly with Burden) and Umbralis as rank 4 engines. One gets +1s and thins out the deck to draw into the RUMs faster but can brick, and the other, whilst having a slow setup, has 10+ cards that can make 1-card xyz (the con being the life point costs of Unform and Soul Charge, but C101 mitigates that heavily).
That is originality. Black Garden. I don't think anyone else would have thought of that. Also, Jurracs and Thunderbird - well, there's even more of an original idea. The premise for this idea is nice, but I would think Chain Beat accomplishes this concept more efficiently, and sadly I hate using BG in general :/
Doing some research last night and today, I was looking at Gadgets (possibly with Burden) and Umbralis as rank 4 engines. One gets +1s and thins out the deck to draw into the RUMs faster but can brick, and the other, whilst having a slow setup, has 10+ cards that can make 1-card xyz (the con being the life point costs of Unform and Soul Charge, but C101 mitigates that heavily).
And with that, two sentences shuts down half an hour of typing and thought. :V
I'd go with Umbralis, honestly. With the need for RUMs, 1-card Xyz Summons are extremely important.
I'd go with Umbralis, honestly. With the need for RUMs, 1-card Xyz Summons are extremely important.
don()shinobi said:
Sorry bro, but you know it happens all the time on Pojo. It's kind of hard to get out of the concise normality they have (you get criticized for having essay posts).
Glad you agree about Umbralis; they are probably my favorite rank 4 engine, even if I've had horrible Kagetokage bricks before. I'll start working on a build.
How's the build going? I myself am trying a build that has a bit more of a focus on the need for Unform to attack by running Battlin' Boxer Veil. Attack with Unform, SS 2 Umbrals, and SS Veil to make a 3-Mat Rank 4.
On another note, the Duelist Alliance Deluxe Edition product info was posted, saying that the set will include "Shaddolls, Yang Zing, Superheavy Samurai, Ultra Athletes, Lightsworn, Stellarknights, and Pendulum Monsters".
I don't think they can be the Entermates, since they're not an archetype if we're only looking at Duelist Alliance. I want to doubt they're the names of that Dante's Inferno archetype, but it just doesn't seem like it...fits, you know?
On another note, the Duelist Alliance Deluxe Edition product info was posted, saying that the set will include "Shaddolls, Yang Zing, Superheavy Samurai, Ultra Athletes, Lightsworn, Stellarknights, and Pendulum Monsters".
I don't think they can be the Entermates, since they're not an archetype if we're only looking at Duelist Alliance. I want to doubt they're the names of that Dante's Inferno archetype, but it just doesn't seem like it...fits, you know?
I basically scrapped the idea to build it IRL due to inconsistency early game, but if you want to try it out. http://i.imgur.com/C11F9an.pngdon()shinobi said:
Decided to build Handtrix instead because I like the engines, and combining them creates some interesting control games. I'm thinking about using Burden+Lance+Ragna or just tossing in 7th for lols, but here's the build. http://i.imgur.com/j2DLf8e.png
And I have no idea what that Ultra Athlete archetype could be. Sounds a little cheesy just looking at it though.
That's actually similar to the Umbral build I run...just with less Quick Chaos (and by that, I mean no Quick Chaos). How is/was Quick Chaos working out for you?
Quick Chaos was interesting to say the least. I'll be honest, I haven't even run it with just Limited Barian's because I have no need to run anything else over Quick Chaos. Dodging the traps like TTHN, BTH, D-Prison, CED, and all that is why I use it, and it works, but I have yet to test with anything else just because of my attraction to it.
Sooooo...Naturia Sacred Tree.
How about dem Traptrix and free draw for Marron every turn?
How about dem Traptrix and free draw for Marron every turn?
don()shinobi said:
Very good. Having this active and NSing Myrmeleo gets you a Hole, a Myrm in the grave and a Nepenthes in Defense to search Dionaea all in one go. I like it. You can also summon Dionaea, get a graveyard-bound Myrm back, then trade Dionaea for another Myrm and pop two S/Ts before overlaying. If they had a Traptrix with a special summoning effect when SSed, that would be the icing on the cake. I think 1-2 of Tree and 1-2 Nepenthes could be added to Handtrix, but further testing will be needed. It has potential; you just don't want to draw Nepenthes at all.
If you really need to, you can just summon Nepenthes and trade it out for Myrmeleo. I'd run only 1, considering it can be searched when needed.
I'm more interested with what it can do with Naturias. Get out Mantis/Horneedle (whether by Tree or not), stop whatever they can do early game, then trade it out for Marron on your turn to get a free draw. Or surprise them with Rosewhip to restrict their S/T usage (works better without Artifacts, honestly). Or Spiderfang (lel) if you need to survive an early attack. Or Antjaw for another surprise Special Summon. Or Butterfly to negate an attack to protect your field. Or Ragweed if they're packing drawpower.
I definitely like the card, but for the meta, it just does nothing more than let H.A.T. do even MORE on your opponent's turn.
I'm more interested with what it can do with Naturias. Get out Mantis/Horneedle (whether by Tree or not), stop whatever they can do early game, then trade it out for Marron on your turn to get a free draw. Or surprise them with Rosewhip to restrict their S/T usage (works better without Artifacts, honestly). Or Spiderfang (lel) if you need to survive an early attack. Or Antjaw for another surprise Special Summon. Or Butterfly to negate an attack to protect your field. Or Ragweed if they're packing drawpower.
I definitely like the card, but for the meta, it just does nothing more than let H.A.T. do even MORE on your opponent's turn.
Went 1-3 with the Malefics today. Beat a guy's YCS Top 16 Geargia but lost to Constellars and Infernities in three. Lost to a sweet rogue 0-2. Very disappointed, so I'm going back to the drawing board.
Naturias have always been one of my favorites. This Trap is pretty fun if you can keep it from getting MST'd. Getting Bamboo Shoots will lockdown the opponent while you set up doing whatever you need to do.
EDIT: Random question. I'm trying to build a deck around this guy and I have a question. Say I have Dimensional Fissure out and my opponent has no cards in hand. Can he send the top two cards from the top of his deck to the Graveyard? I'm not sure because what if one of those milled cards is a monster? Then what? Thanks in advance.
Naturias have always been one of my favorites. This Trap is pretty fun if you can keep it from getting MST'd. Getting Bamboo Shoots will lockdown the opponent while you set up doing whatever you need to do.
EDIT: Random question. I'm trying to build a deck around this guy and I have a question. Say I have Dimensional Fissure out and my opponent has no cards in hand. Can he send the top two cards from the top of his deck to the Graveyard? I'm not sure because what if one of those milled cards is a monster? Then what? Thanks in advance.
Yep. Just any monster that would be sent to the Graveyard by an effect would be banished with D-Fissure.
Now, if for whatever reason Don Zaloog milled your opponent's deck as a cost, you couldn't activate that effect if D-Fissure was on the field, since the top card(s) of your opponent's deck isn't public knowledge; a monster could be milled and thus be unable to satisfy the cost. But thankfully, our favorite organized crime leader in card form doesn't succumb to this.
Now, if for whatever reason Don Zaloog milled your opponent's deck as a cost, you couldn't activate that effect if D-Fissure was on the field, since the top card(s) of your opponent's deck isn't public knowledge; a monster could be milled and thus be unable to satisfy the cost. But thankfully, our favorite organized crime leader in card form doesn't succumb to this.
Tough decision, but I'd say Skill Drain. It shuts down almost every deck that can remotely have a chance at competing, with the exception of Hand variants, Dark Wolrds and Rulers. Banishing, while also shutting down decks, is also less accessible by virtue of Macro and D-Fissure being limited and Radiance being relatively hard to get IRL. Skill Drain is somewhat similar to Vanity's Emptiness in that specific decks can thrive under them, whereas Macro is much harder to use to one's advantage rather than just being an anti-meta tool. The main reason Macro sees play is to shut down graveyard-based decks like Mermail, Bujin, etc. While Skill Drain does have an inherent out in Ice Hand that Macro doesn't, Abyss Dweller is also a commonly played card that accomplishes much of the work Macro and D-Fissure will (shutting down Hands and Abysslinde among other things).
Overall, less decks are affected by banishing than by effect negation, so Skill Drain is more threatening but less splashable in mains and/or sides. Macro/D-Fissure is also cut from side decks in favor of things like DD Crow, Debunk, etc. The main reason for the last point I believe is that they are more reactive rather than floodgates, which can't normally force -1s and get popped by Ignition/MST/Moralltach (major cons to floodgates atm).
Overall, less decks are affected by banishing than by effect negation, so Skill Drain is more threatening but less splashable in mains and/or sides. Macro/D-Fissure is also cut from side decks in favor of things like DD Crow, Debunk, etc. The main reason for the last point I believe is that they are more reactive rather than floodgates, which can't normally force -1s and get popped by Ignition/MST/Moralltach (major cons to floodgates atm).
Sooo...a weird deck topped at a tournament in Japan. It had 18 players, 6 teams of 3. The second place team had an...odd deck, to say the least.
He was running Infernities.
...and Heraldics.
...and Shaddolls.
Note that this is OCG, so he's running Trish and Heavy Storm and such.
...what?
He was running Infernities.
...and Heraldics.
...and Shaddolls.
Note that this is OCG, so he's running Trish and Heavy Storm and such.
His Decklist said:
...what?