Rather than focusing on alex, who may or may not be scum (probably not), I think we should focus on Kecleon-X, who I believe is probably (I'm 90% sure) scum.
On Day 1, Camoclone heavily tunnelled Luispipe in order to get a reaction to discern if Luispipe was a wolf. Camoclone admitted he had no evidence for this, however:
Camoclone said:
There was absolutely nothing to hold against you until you started posting. We were making everything up. Now I believe you are scum based off your reaction to the pressure,
Camoclone then analysed the reactions of Luispipe, and declared that his reaction was similar to that of a newb wolf. Kecleon, knowing this was a mistake from Camoclone, jumped in and backed Camoclone up:
Kecleon-X said:
I actually agree with what you've pointed out here, Camo. Having been newb wolf at one point (My first game, actually), I can totally attest to this behavior.
##UNOMGUS: Porygon-X
##D-MAIL: Luispipe
I don't know if you noticed this, but Camoclone posted a case in the same post that was totally legitimate after stating that. I was responding to that, not what he stated before.
Here we see PMJ (who we know was a wolf) and Kecleon play off each other to make each other seem like good townies:
Kecleon-X said:
Really? Seeing as my first game I was a wolf, I wouldn't know how a newb town would react, which could be the same as newb wolf. Hm. Maybe I should rethink my vote, seeing as it's more based off my own experiences being lined up with Luis' than actual evidence.
However Kecleon does not change his vote, because taking it off may derail the bandwagon. Casting doubt about the vote would indicate that Kecleon is being considered rather than rash, and when Luispipe flipped town, he could say 'I wasn't completely sure'.
I wasn't. I still am not totally sure. Of course, I would say that I am still looking at him in a suspicious manner because of this post:
Kecleon-X said:
Kecleon-X said:
So. Many.
Dead people...
But in all seriousness, that bites that we lost the cop. Though I can't say that I didn't see that coming, considering Camo's behavior.
But wait.
Considering the fact that he was a role cop, don't you think that perhaps it would be a good idea to lynch Luis, considering it
was a role cop that went after him? I mean, it wouldn't be far-fetched to think that Luis was seer'd by Camo the night prior and he decided to try to get him lynched, making his arguments against Luis rather thin given the fact that he actually didn't have any physical evidence to begin with.
Just a couple of thoughts.
This still stands.
But, as I will openly state, my suspicions are waning.
More playing off each other:
Kecleon-X said:
Not exactly -- I still agree with a lot of what Camoclone pointed out in the post that I quoted, but it was supported by the fact that I had the same mentality when I was still newb wolf. Given the fact that what I mentioned having reasonable doubt about said mentality, that would make all the points that would have been supported by said claim are thus not supported, casting reasonable doubt on the validity of those points as well.
tl;dr: There's still what Camo has mentioned which I agree with, but my past experiences were my primary basis.
I see nothing wrong with this -- I'm answering a question posed to me.
Sensing that the bandwagon hasn't really picked up any real momentum after Luispipe's role claim, Kecleon withdraws his vote:
Kecleon-X said:
But either way -- I think I shouldn't keep this vote active any longer. I've decided that, at least for the time being, Luis is not a threat and that my past experiences could be rationally applied for both sides.
For the time being, at least, I shall take a moments reprieve from voting:
##UND-MAIL: Luispipe
I did retract my vote, yes. But everyone else convinced me of, at least for the moment, that Luis was not an immediate threat.
Later in the day, Kecleon did not vote for SF at all, despite clear evidence presented by PMJ, and multiple opportunities to vote.
I posted this message explaining this sentiment:
Kecleon-X said:
Porygon-X said:
Holy cow that was a lot of posts.
Ok, so TheGuy answered my question; the scum gets an example town role. Because of this, Luis could very well be a wolf based on the nature of his role (could be a town role or a scum role), his weird reactions to camoclone's accusations, and his really late claim. In my last post I said I would vote for Luis if TheGuy answered yes to my question, but since then, Drohn/PMJ brought up good points about SF.
We have a few hours left. I'll hold my vote till the day gets closer to the end, but right now I'm leaning toward a SF lynch.
Whereas I would normally agree with you, Scorched kinda does do this a lot and he's almost always lynched because of it.
I'm just saying. I've played several games with him, and no matter his alignment he usually acts that way. That was why I was so loathe.
Then during the night after Camoclone died, Kecleon posted this:
Kecleon-X said:
Considering the fact that he was a role cop, don't you think that perhaps it would be a good idea to lynch Luis, considering it was a role cop that went after him? I mean, it wouldn't be far-fetched to think that Luis was seer'd by Camo the night prior and he decided to try to get him lynched, making his arguments against Luis rather thin given the fact that he actually didn't have any physical evidence to begin with.
Just a couple of thoughts.
This despite Camoclone himself saying that he had NO evidence upon which to tunnel Luispipe. Posting during the night ensures that EVERYONE will read the post, and since there could be no reply for another few days, the suggestion would fester in the minds of everyone. Kecleon later claimed this was a mistake and the thread title said it was daytime, however this was not the case. grantm1999 later used Camoclone as a reason to direct pressure away from him and back onto Luispipe.
Please note I explained this sentiment earlier in this message.
On the day where MtC was accused, Kecleon was nowhere to be seen. Maybe he did not want to risk exposure and risk defending MtC, or maybe he thought that the attention on MtC would blow over. Either way, I find it suspicious to not post at all in a standard length day.
I was actually at Worlds with my brother during that game day. I also met MtC there, but unfortunately was unable to meet anyone else, WPM included. Drohn or any other mod -- Camoclone included -- will back me up on this. I was talking about it all the time with the rest of the staff. There is also this post, as well, of which I posted before day 4:
Kecleon-X said:
Drohn said:
Never mind. I did say it twice, but you didn't reply to it in between those times so it counts as once.
Post: #725 | RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Night 2 Ends August 9th
That was the title of the thread when you posted, Kecleon.
You can see it at the top of every post.
Oh, lol. I thought it was something different. My bad on both counts!
Ah well. Anyway, I will be gone starting Tuesday to Sunday and unable to post.
This was for my Worlds trip, in which we ran into horrible traffic on Monday upon returning, leaving us at an insane 4:00 am arrival.
Now we return to the present, and after hearing about what alex's ability is called, Kecleon immediately comes up with what can only be assumed to be a nervous reaction to (probably) being the only wolf left, and makes a wild statement:
Kecleon-X said:
Well, given the nature of the setting, how the Royalists and whatnot are trying to survive... I don't see how it couldn't be a scum role.
When you consider that a survivor is normally an indie role, saying that it must mean that alex is scum because the Royalists are trying to survive is just ridiculous and unfounded. In WW,
everyone is trying to survive.
My post still stands. I state that it may very well could be a scum role given the setting, not that I absolutely believe it, but I'm still open to the possibility. What I'm saying here is that you can't rule it out based upon the name. You may disagree with me, but that's just the absolute fact of the matter.
I've had my suspicions for a while now, and I'm going to act on them.
##doublesharp: Kecleon-X
