Verbivore said:
It's not easy, it's also not that hard
Top tier decks after ND
- Thread starter alex
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It's not easy, it's also not that hard
iisnumber12 said:
Eels are theoretically easy to OHKO but yet eel decks have won a lot of cities. It is not the OHKO issue. Magneboar is just SLOWER than other decks because you are talking about setting up multiple stage2s.
However i think in ND Reshiboar will become better because of Reshiram[EX] since now you dont need to worry about discarding energy. Reshiboar was hamstringed in NV because of N and N slowed down Reshiram reloads using Abiliboar. But now since you dont need to reload those Reshiram Exes I think Reshi[EX]boar will see more play. That also means you free up 4 cards in your deck since now you dont need Energy retrievals or Fisherman in Reshi[EX]boar.
RobertBenjamin said:
No, its because eels are stage ones and you set up multiples
iisnumber12 said:
analyze your own post. it translates into this: it is still faster to set-up multiple eels than multiple stage 2s. however you spin it Magneboar is slower than eels.
Zorua said:
Zorua has nailed it !!!
Zorua said:
Exactly.my point
pokemonjoe said:
I think the twins system is suited for decks wih trainer lock. without trainer lock you will not prevent the mewtwo player from catchering up easy prizes.
RobertBenjamin said:
...which is what slow, trainer lock decks do anyways to get out an early Vileplume...? Drop down 2 Oddish, let one die, play Twins, grab Candy/Plume, evolve? Zone does the same thing, except it does it with attacking Pokemon, not a support/locking Pokemon.
My personal opinion on the upcoming post-ND meta is that trying to guess what it is is a foolish thing to do. Sure, we can predict what will be popular and what will be played and everything but it's not that simple. Honestly, what we always do, no matter how much everyone tries to predict and gamble and act like they know what they're talking about, is just wait until the ECC is over. The ECC has always done a great job of showing us what is actually good, and what actually lives up to the hype.
And a short comment on Mewtwo EX. It's receiving tons of hype right now. TrollandToad is selling it for obnoxious prices. Does anybody remember Lostgar? Anyone? That card that generated almost similar hype levels as Mewtwo EX? You remember? It was able to win just one, that's right, one States tournament. After all that hype and everything, it straight up fell flat on it's face. I'm not sure if people even decided to play it at Regionals last year.
I'm not saying the same thing will happen at all. Maybe Mewtwo EX(if played right) will be able to win a lot of States or place really well. But maybe, just maybe, all this hype is really around the fact that it, along with fellow basic EXs are all just so highly overpowered and unseen that we just don't know how to really take advantage/counter them/understand them all that well. Everyone has all these super creative ideas as to what Mewtwo could be really good for. I'm sure that most of the testing is done with current decks, or what people "think" will be popular. Like last year. Everyone was testing Lostgar against SP(a smart thing), but nobody was testing against, say, SP with Roserade/Weavile techs, or Gyarados with double Regi/Cyrus engine, or even testing against Magnerock(Magnezone/Regirock, the original Magnezone deck). So most of the testing was kind of a mute point because it wasn't what the meta actually turned out to be.
And another point. We may know a few cards from ND, but we really don't know everything. It's difficult to test when there are still ~60 unknown cards in our card pool. We don't know exactly what trainers/supporters/stadiums(we know one of them though, and it definitely benefits all the EXs) are in the set. These are more essential than the Pokemon themselves. Will we have access to the Ball Engine? Or what about the first, stable, Supporter searcher? Or disruption supporters? Or another stadium even! We don't know yet, and so the decks being built to say, counter Mewtwo test decks, don't necessarily have access to the full card pool, and, therefore, aren't necessarily reaching their full potential.
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On an entirely different note, I have this to say. Last format, in a format "dominated" by SP, plenty of people complained about how SP was overpowered and ruining the game(I can even go dig up posts from Pokebeach here to prove my point), because it took away rogue decks ability to be played and win, and won everything all the time and everything else was bad because it was so much better than every other deck(even though Gyrados, Machamp, and Gengar were all still viable, solid deck play choices that could still go head to head in big tournaments against fields of SP). So people wanted to do away with all those "overpowered" basics, and bring on a fresh format with all this "unknown" potential.
So now, we did away with that bad format filled with "overpowered", "broken" basic Pokemon. Luckily, we transitioned into a format with basic Pokemon that have 130 HP, can spread 30 damage across the enemies board in a single attack, and are soon gaining access to basic Pokemon that have 170+ HP. Did I forget to mention that basic Pokemon also have Donphan's Poke-body in tool form(only works on basics), a Stadium that lowers retreat cost by one(only for basic Pokemon), and are getting their very own Rainbow energy with no drawbacks besides the fact that it needs to be attached to a basic Pokemon? We transitioned into a format where playing a single Collector can grab you three Pokemon that have a combined HP of 540 HP?
The best part about this is, is that everyone doesn't complain at all about these. SP, the deck with one of the most stable/consistent engines in the history of the game, and one of the few decks in the game that wasn't so much about deck building as it was about skill needed to play, something that this game[and more specifically, this format] lack, was super "overpowered", but none of these basics(with base HPs of 180) are overpowered. What sense does that make at all?
Not to mention that SP existed in a time when consistency was crucial. It wasn't about whether a deck had a great matchup against SP. It just needed to be consistent. That's what made SP so good. It was consistent, every single game. Consistency is key to winning games/tournaments. What do we have for consistency engines this format? Is it the Sage/N/Twins engine? That's your idea of a consistent engine? Please. This format is so stupidly luck based(going first and starting with a Collector in hand almost guarantees a win, or makes winning much easier) and stale that it's ridiculous.
There. Rant done.
pokemonjoe said:
Not even. Magneboar can quickly set up a variety of attackers from nowhere. That is why it still has a chance to be good in Next Destinies
Glaceon said:
Gigas would be bad. Kyurem EX could work though
alexmf2 said:
Both would work.
Exactly. The worlds winning list ran 3, so it's very reliant on it. It should be, trying to set up 2 stage two's. A deck with 2 stage 2's is a slow deck, thus the reliance on twins. How can you quickly set up a variety of attackers from nowhere? You're supposed to fall behind. It still has a chance to be good in ND, but not because it is fast.
guys lets get real it is true that Magneboar won worlds but that was before the catcher and eviolite era. After worlds 2011 how many times did Magneboar win battle roads? In the pokegym list it only lists 2. How about cities? I believe nada. If you want empirical data that is empirical data. Eel decks with Magnezone will still be the way to go since it will be faster to set-up than Magneboar decks.
