blargh257 said:
but people will be using the Eel engine more than the Emboar engine for Magnezone because it is faster and has more advantages than emboar.
Top tier decks after ND
- Thread starter alex
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but people will be using the Eel engine more than the Emboar engine for Magnezone because it is faster and has more advantages than emboar.
We're talking about after ND. Next destinies isn't out yet. So none of this is relevant until about 2 weeks. Magneboar will be able to abuse Reshiram EX like a boss. RDL with black belt will be able to ko any EX for three prizes. It can also tech in heavy ball, allowing a clutch search of Emboar, Magnezone, or Reshi EX. It can also clean the field of energy in a single turn, preventing Mewtwo from killing it.RobertBenjamin said:
pokemonjoe said:
It is relevant since there will still be catcher and eviolite in the format. What ND adds to the meta is that it give us EXes. Naturally it remains to be seen if this EXes will affect the western meta but if you've been reading forums and blogs we know that in Japan Mewtwo EX had a big impact in their meta when it was released.
you're forgetting that Reshiram[EX] can ohko Magnezone Prime and Emboar without the help of Black Belt. Whereas you will need to lost burn 4 energy to kill a Reshiram[EX]. A smart player will hamstring your ability to get 4 energies in the field by killing first those tepigs,pignites, emboars and any pokemon that has any energy attached to it.
Celebi-Tornadus-Mewtwo EX decks will have a lot of space to tech in Terrakion to deal with those lightning pokemon.
lets get back to this point once the dust settles after states, regionals and spring battle roads and see how Magneboar does.
blargh257 said:
The battle roads and cities data shows that getting energies from the discard pile is better than getting energy from your hand. Battle Roads showed Reshiplosion dominating while Cities showed Eel decks dominating. Getting energy from the discard pile means you can take advantage of supporters like Juniper, Sages Training, and Engineer's adjustments to get other badly needed cards.
Your also forgetting Heavy Ball. It gives Magneboar a huge advantage, as it could search out everything but the basics and Magneton. Your also forgetting that while Reshiram EX kills Emboar or Magnezone, a Magnezone will immediately return the KO, but take 2 prizes instead of one. The only reason that Magneboar is not tier 1 is that it gets decimated by Tornadus/Celebi/Mewtwo if it starts killing basics turn 1.RobertBenjamin said:
^We've had this debate before, but there's a reason Professor Elm's Training Method doesn't see very much play. It's no good when you're stuck. Heavy Ball is bad for the same reason. It will get played in an occasional deck, but it's not going to be the Magneboar staple you make it out to be.
pokemonjoe said:
Um 7, no 3
Celebi23 said:
Its completely illogical because you put it out of context. With Communication, you need to put back a pokemon that you might very much need in order to get 1 of 5 cards, the other 15 you don't need because it's all basics and a Stage 1 you will almost never need. With Heavy Ball, you can, without any repercussions, search for those cards just as easily as Communication. I would never use more than 1 Communication, and I am considering even dropping that. There are some times when you are even unable to use Communication if you don't have another pokemon in your hand.
If you're losing games because of what you put back with Communication, it's probably an issue with playing skill and not with the card. Communication is used to get you the Pokémon you need most. If that card is in your hand, don't play Communication. If it's in your deck, playing the Communication to get it is beneficial.
What if the Pokémon you need most is Magnemite or Magneton? Heavy Ball is too situational.
And I find it funny you don't think you need the basic or stage one cards as much, lol. The Stage 2's heavy ball searches are useless without the basic form. At least you can play down the basic without the Stage 2.
The Ball engine is great, but Heavy Ball doesn't deserve to be anything more than a 1-of imo.
What if the Pokémon you need most is Magnemite or Magneton? Heavy Ball is too situational.
And I find it funny you don't think you need the basic or stage one cards as much, lol. The Stage 2's heavy ball searches are useless without the basic form. At least you can play down the basic without the Stage 2.
The Ball engine is great, but Heavy Ball doesn't deserve to be anything more than a 1-of imo.
alexmf2 said:
Wait-you're telling me you run only a single Communication, and think that even that's to much, and are considering dropping the best Pokemon trainer search in the game right now?
Celebi23 said:
What if you only have an Emboar in your hand, you have a Pignite and Magnemite benched, and a Rare Candy in your hand. If you don't attack that turn, your field will be destroyed. You lose because you can't get both Emboar and Magnezone. Sometimes you need two pokemon the most, or you will need the other pokemon later in the game.
If anything, Communication is more situational. You have Collector for basics, and I have that 1-of of Communication if ever need Magneton, which I rarely do.
Again, Pokemon Communication wants to have a talk with you. I have almost never used Communication for a basic, I can never see a time when you would need to. Stage 1 cards I also very rarely use, Rare Candy is a god. If I do need them, again that is why I play 1 Pokemon Communication. It can be Junk Armed for if I need it.
Don't get me wrong, I do not believe the Ball's are going to be useful in other decks. I could see it at max a 1-of in EelZone, and i don't really see it any other decks other than Reshiboar.
alexmf2- This situation isn't hard. Communicate for Magnezone, Rare Candy into Magnezone, and Magnetic Draw in the hope you hit Emboar, Communication, or Junk Arm. Chances are you will. Regardless, what's going to destroy an almost fully setup field in one turn? That almost never happens. Tell me which is more likely:
1) Needing a basic.
2) Having a hand where you need a Stage 2 Pokémon and don't have an expendable Pokémon in your hand.
If you have "that 1-of Communication", you'll never have it when you need it. This is basic math - you have a 1/60 chance of a card in your deck/hand being Communication, so chances are you won't have it when you need it with only one copy.
You've seriously never seen Communication used for a basic? Quite honestly, I'm not even sure what to say to that. There are many, many turns where you need a basic. You make it sound like this is an uncommon scenario.
You make the argument Elm's wasn't played because it was a Supporter. Celio's Network saw an unbelievable amount of play in non-ex decks. It was basically a staple 4-of. It's PETM, but it also searches basics.
1) Needing a basic.
2) Having a hand where you need a Stage 2 Pokémon and don't have an expendable Pokémon in your hand.
If you have "that 1-of Communication", you'll never have it when you need it. This is basic math - you have a 1/60 chance of a card in your deck/hand being Communication, so chances are you won't have it when you need it with only one copy.
You've seriously never seen Communication used for a basic? Quite honestly, I'm not even sure what to say to that. There are many, many turns where you need a basic. You make it sound like this is an uncommon scenario.
You make the argument Elm's wasn't played because it was a Supporter. Celio's Network saw an unbelievable amount of play in non-ex decks. It was basically a staple 4-of. It's PETM, but it also searches basics.
Celebi23 said:
Agreed, Ultra Ball is more useful in most situations
Jirachi said:
But in this deck you can discard Collector s and Rare Candies to draw more with Magnetic Draw
Celebi23 said:
Actually, I think number 2 is quite a lot more likely. And "that 1-of Communication" that I have is easily gotten. By the time that I need it, I will have gone through at least 2/3 of my deck, and if I draw into it, I use it, even if I don't need it. Junk Arm is amazing.
I have seriously never used Communication for a basic, except maybe once on the first turn for a Cleffa. Yeah, there are many, many turns where you need a basic. Just use Collector, Magnetic Draw to try to get a Collector, use Pokegear/Random Receiver to get a Collector, and if all else fails, just use N or something in the hope of getting it. IMO, if you use Communication to get a basic, it's a complete waste of a Communication.
I have no idea of the circumstances of when Celio's was played, so I have nothing to say to this point.