RE: The TEMPORARY Rising Sun Clan. The war is a DRAW.
... Choice Scarf Salamence runs max Spe as well <_<. The bulky ones do get outdone though.
Unlike yours, my calcs were done using Adamant Aggron. You however are persistently using JOLLY Aggron - there's a big difference there, which turns your precious 2HKO into a 3HKO. Numbers aren't there to be misquoted - check back at what I did and you'll see that (again) the Jolly Aggron doesn't ever break 50% to 449 HP Harry.
On the note of Harry, Force Palm is preferred, yes. But like Registeel, if people were finding Aggron to be too much of a problem to their team, you can guarantee that that would change to something else that would do the job better.
"Not very much" is pretty easy to equate to "Not enough" damage over the course of 2 turns - if Aggron can't damage something enough to KO it before it itself dies, it's not exactly doing a LOT of damage. I'd quite happily trade Hariyama for Aggron if both had to die though, because Harry can be replaced on the types of teams it is normally seen in (like Stall)... removing a good offensive threat from your opponent is usually worth that.
Did you even think for a second that Registeel's EV's would change if Aggron starts getting popular? The metagame doesn't stay constant you know; if Aggron really became popular then Registeel would run more Def to better take it on. I kinda forgot about Steelix as well this whole time - it has that colossal base Def to take pretty much anything without TOO much of a threat to itself (even EQ and Aqua Tail), and can then hit you with STAB EQ. Maybe that's a bit of a better counter than Registeel, given what Registeel CURRENTLY runs as a standard, but I can guarantee you that it would change if Steel was to be used to stop Aggron (like Magnezone changed to stop Scizor and Lucario).
Oh, I saw what you said, but I don't agree with it. Maybe I should've specifically said that, but w/e. Scizor can be effectively trapped no matter what set it's using unless it U-Turns as you bring Magnezone in, or you get outpredicted and get hit by a fighting move. So long as you don't come in against a fighting attack, you will ALWAYS be faster, will pretty much always take the attack with little damage (the only one that would hurt remotely is SD Bullet Punch, since we've established that it's not good to come in against any fighting attack), and will always KO it. If all else fails, bring Magnezone in after something has died, and trap Scizor that way.
You seem to have an issue here - if something is designed to counter something else that it normally doesn't, of COURSE it's going to be specialised towards taking it down. Why should that be irrelevant?
Have you looked at the things you said Weavile is good at KOing there? With the exception of TTar (although even that is a fragile argument if TTar is in good health and has a few HP EVs - 339 Atk Weavile with a Choice Band does 290-341 damage with Brick Break to a 256 Def (no investment) TTar), all of them are rather frail... anything remotely physically defensive not named Hippowdon, Gliscor or Celebi (who obviously all fear boosted Ice Punch), or not weak to anything Weavile has, takes virtually nothing from it - given that this is quite a significant number of opponents (including Scizor, the most used pokémon of the game atm!), how does that make Weavile strong?
Personally, Weavile is in OU for the same reasons as to why Electivire, Porygon-Z and Alakazam are in OU - it sucks, but enough people use it to keep it there for some reason... that's not the point of the matter, but w/e.
I apologise if you think I was ignoring the overall point of your counters section. I guess I lost focus a bit with the whole "Weavile is strong in OU" -_-. I was going to say something about inherent flawsof pokeshere, but I can't find the words to put it together atm, so I'll leave it for now.
I don't really see your point with LO here... I know you've been using that (it's pretty obvious just from looking at the numbers, given that I've been doing calcs as well), so... what's your point? LO doesn't change that fact that you can't do 50% to some rather dangerous defensive pokémon (well, dangerous to Aggron anyhow)... whilst the added recoil from attacking most definitely will be a negative impact from the orb.
Just for coverage here, the ONLY reason Focus Blast is standard on ANYTHING is because the things that use it have literally no other viable option that works in its place to do its job. Hidden Power Fighting is a gigantic drop from Focus Blast's power (not to mention losing a speed point to obtain it), and that's often fatal to the pokémon you mentioned (Typhlosion needs HP for something else anyway, but personally I find Focus Punch better than Focus Blast since it can actually dent Blissey... but meh, prediction vs accuracy is not a fun thing to argue). If it wasn't for that, I highly doubt it would even see use... I mean, how many other pokémon do you actually see it used by?
The only things I'd change in that closing statement would be as follows:
"And the fact that some of the counters that it has, most notably hariyama, registeel, and some others, have trouble repeatedly switching in to moves it may carry (Iron Head for a 3KO/iron tail (on Adamant Aggron) for a 2KO, EQ + Superpower/ Superpower for a 2KO while it can't guarantee an OHKO it respectively)"
Otherwise I pretty much agree with your revised statement. I guess I'll see what the metagame is like shortly after these changes are implemented, since under SS this might stand a chance if you can avoid EQ/Fighting attacks. It might be a little hit and miss with that low initial Spe and somewhat crippling weaknesses, but a STAB 150 BP move is always fun... EQ is definitely a move you'd want though, since it provides pretty much the best coverage with Head Smash.
... Choice Scarf Salamence runs max Spe as well <_<. The bulky ones do get outdone though.
Unlike yours, my calcs were done using Adamant Aggron. You however are persistently using JOLLY Aggron - there's a big difference there, which turns your precious 2HKO into a 3HKO. Numbers aren't there to be misquoted - check back at what I did and you'll see that (again) the Jolly Aggron doesn't ever break 50% to 449 HP Harry.
On the note of Harry, Force Palm is preferred, yes. But like Registeel, if people were finding Aggron to be too much of a problem to their team, you can guarantee that that would change to something else that would do the job better.
"Not very much" is pretty easy to equate to "Not enough" damage over the course of 2 turns - if Aggron can't damage something enough to KO it before it itself dies, it's not exactly doing a LOT of damage. I'd quite happily trade Hariyama for Aggron if both had to die though, because Harry can be replaced on the types of teams it is normally seen in (like Stall)... removing a good offensive threat from your opponent is usually worth that.
Did you even think for a second that Registeel's EV's would change if Aggron starts getting popular? The metagame doesn't stay constant you know; if Aggron really became popular then Registeel would run more Def to better take it on. I kinda forgot about Steelix as well this whole time - it has that colossal base Def to take pretty much anything without TOO much of a threat to itself (even EQ and Aqua Tail), and can then hit you with STAB EQ. Maybe that's a bit of a better counter than Registeel, given what Registeel CURRENTLY runs as a standard, but I can guarantee you that it would change if Steel was to be used to stop Aggron (like Magnezone changed to stop Scizor and Lucario).
Oh, I saw what you said, but I don't agree with it. Maybe I should've specifically said that, but w/e. Scizor can be effectively trapped no matter what set it's using unless it U-Turns as you bring Magnezone in, or you get outpredicted and get hit by a fighting move. So long as you don't come in against a fighting attack, you will ALWAYS be faster, will pretty much always take the attack with little damage (the only one that would hurt remotely is SD Bullet Punch, since we've established that it's not good to come in against any fighting attack), and will always KO it. If all else fails, bring Magnezone in after something has died, and trap Scizor that way.
You seem to have an issue here - if something is designed to counter something else that it normally doesn't, of COURSE it's going to be specialised towards taking it down. Why should that be irrelevant?
Have you looked at the things you said Weavile is good at KOing there? With the exception of TTar (although even that is a fragile argument if TTar is in good health and has a few HP EVs - 339 Atk Weavile with a Choice Band does 290-341 damage with Brick Break to a 256 Def (no investment) TTar), all of them are rather frail... anything remotely physically defensive not named Hippowdon, Gliscor or Celebi (who obviously all fear boosted Ice Punch), or not weak to anything Weavile has, takes virtually nothing from it - given that this is quite a significant number of opponents (including Scizor, the most used pokémon of the game atm!), how does that make Weavile strong?
Personally, Weavile is in OU for the same reasons as to why Electivire, Porygon-Z and Alakazam are in OU - it sucks, but enough people use it to keep it there for some reason... that's not the point of the matter, but w/e.
I apologise if you think I was ignoring the overall point of your counters section. I guess I lost focus a bit with the whole "Weavile is strong in OU" -_-. I was going to say something about inherent flawsof pokeshere, but I can't find the words to put it together atm, so I'll leave it for now.
I don't really see your point with LO here... I know you've been using that (it's pretty obvious just from looking at the numbers, given that I've been doing calcs as well), so... what's your point? LO doesn't change that fact that you can't do 50% to some rather dangerous defensive pokémon (well, dangerous to Aggron anyhow)... whilst the added recoil from attacking most definitely will be a negative impact from the orb.
Just for coverage here, the ONLY reason Focus Blast is standard on ANYTHING is because the things that use it have literally no other viable option that works in its place to do its job. Hidden Power Fighting is a gigantic drop from Focus Blast's power (not to mention losing a speed point to obtain it), and that's often fatal to the pokémon you mentioned (Typhlosion needs HP for something else anyway, but personally I find Focus Punch better than Focus Blast since it can actually dent Blissey... but meh, prediction vs accuracy is not a fun thing to argue). If it wasn't for that, I highly doubt it would even see use... I mean, how many other pokémon do you actually see it used by?
The only things I'd change in that closing statement would be as follows:
"And the fact that some of the counters that it has, most notably hariyama, registeel, and some others, have trouble repeatedly switching in to moves it may carry (Iron Head for a 3KO/iron tail (on Adamant Aggron) for a 2KO, EQ + Superpower/ Superpower for a 2KO while it can't guarantee an OHKO it respectively)"
Otherwise I pretty much agree with your revised statement. I guess I'll see what the metagame is like shortly after these changes are implemented, since under SS this might stand a chance if you can avoid EQ/Fighting attacks. It might be a little hit and miss with that low initial Spe and somewhat crippling weaknesses, but a STAB 150 BP move is always fun... EQ is definitely a move you'd want though, since it provides pretty much the best coverage with Head Smash.
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